Alright, we're at it again. The another vote to see if High House of Light should be banned from Legacy format. With one of the options being to unban The Final Wave along with the ban of HHoL since it was banned because of their interaction.

1. Ban High House of Light.

2. Ban Hight House of Light, and unban The Final Wave.

3. Do not ban High House of Light.

I'm voting "2." IF we agree that Kyuden Hitomi + Final Wave isn't a danger.

Now, we can plainly see that KH can't T1 Final Wave like HHoL could, due to it only being an End Phase draw from under box. But how easy/bad is it to be able to do it on its T2?

Otherwise, yeah... super combo/meta box, it's time to go. If not "2.", then definitely "1."

May I respectfully suggest switching this to a dual vote?

EG

A. What should be done with High House of Light?
1. Ban it.
2. Do not ban it.

B. IF High House of Light is banned, what should be done with The Final Wave?
3. Keep it banned.
4. Unban it.

Because, assuming there are enough "BAN" votes for HHOL, the way you're running the vote you'll have to run a second wave of voting anyway so that people who voted for not banning HHOL can vote on unbanning TFW or not

KH is at least a full turn slower than HHoL for every combo deck that can be run out of either SH. In the case of TFW decks it gives everyone a guaranteed limited phase before being hit by the combo this allows for a smart player to call TFW with Hantei Sensei and stop the deck cold.

True, and they wouldn't waste their Hantei guessing after TFW, because the KH Dyn flip would telegraph a true TFW deck by a mile.

Yeah, I'm a solid "2".

Why? All options are covered by a single vote.

If you want to ban HHoL while keeping TFW banned, you choose 1. If you want to ban HHoL and unban TFW, you choose 2.

It's pretty simple. No second vote needed.

And if you don't want to ban HHOL, but in case it ends up banned (eg, if you lose the vote), think The Final Wave should be unbanned, what do you vote for?

The fact is, you're taking two separate votes ("Should HHOL be banned") and "If HHOL is banned, should TFW be unbanned?") and trying to force them in one.

EG, if 3 people vote option 1, and 2 people vote option 2, and 2 people vote option 3, you will have enough votes to ban HHOL, but you will be missing two votes on what to do with The Final Wave, because people who voted for option 3 will not be able to give their opinion on what should be done with The Final Wave in case option 3 lose.

There has been no indicators that TFW should be unbanned with HHoL in the environment.

Yes, that's why I phrased the second question:

"If HHOL is banned, should TFW be unbanned?"

Also why the part you quoted say "IN CASE HHOL IS BANNED"...

Because, see, it's possible that people who vote "HHOL should not be banned" will LOSE that vote. It's been known to happen.

IF they lose the vote, then the "The Final Wave" decision will be taken without their input, because you tried to merge the two questions ("Should HHOL be banned?" and "If HHOL is banned, should TFW be unbanned?")

Obviously, if/when HHOL is banned, it would be preferable to have all council members participate in the decision on whether or not to unban The Final Wave .

I've given this some mor ethought and I really hat the idea but it seems pretty clear that HHoL will never cease being a problem.

I vote 2.

I was pretty adamantly against banning HHOL a while back, especially with the best Dragon boxes still being (arguably) House of Tao or Shiro Kitsuki but I've changed my mind as our monthly Legacy events have continued and more and more players have moved towards playing, One of our events which had an attendance of 20 people and had a jaw-dropping 13 people playing some sort of HHOL deck. For variety's sake alone we kicked from our local scene. Some of that was probably my fault. C'est le vie. I would like it very much for it to go away.

I vote to ban it.

Final Wave still makes a heck of an engine for a deck, but is it now significantly more busted then other available options? I don't know. I'll vote to allow it to be legal with the knowledge that nothing is irrevocable.

I will of course, start working to break the card right away. Border Keep will make the dyn part of getting the setup easier, so that is a concern, but meta and blah blah. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

Paul Ashman

Mac votes 2.
Ken votes 2.
Paul votes 2.
I'm voting 2.

Because this effects the ban list, we're going to need one more vote to pass it.

I'd suggest banning HHoL but not unbanning The Final Wave. I'm guessing some kind of jank in the future will result in banning The Final Wave again (if its going to be unbanned).

I'm very undecided on this issue. For now, I will abstain.

Okay, sent a PM to Hikaru and Br'nn.

Last time I sent a PM to Matt about a vote I got no response, so could someone poke him with a sharp sharp stick.